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Star Trek Model Kits: The Great Debate

posted by JamieH 6:00 AM
Friday, July 29, 2011

We made a promise not to discuss the development of our 1:350 TOS Enterprise Star Trek model kit outside of our 1701CLUB updates. This blog post won’t talk about it directly but it does address a significant concern among modelers that seems to have turned into a great debate. This post won’t be about what we will do or what we won’t do, but explains the kinds of things that we have to keep in mind when making decisions about our new kits.

Two words seem to strike fear into the hearts of model builders everywhere… GRID LINES. So, let’s ask the question. Why in the universe would we consider adding such a detail to a hyper-accurate model kit? I don’t have to remind modelers that until we came along, no AMT Enterprise model was ever built without a modeler having to slave over meticulously sanding the stupid things off the saucer… Wait, none of them were ever built without doing that…? Well maybe as kids we never removed them. There was no way to accomplish that at that age and get it to look right. With time, our skills improved and we found ways of improving things as best we could and every build any of us ever did came out looking great… Didn’t it? Well, maybe there were some cases where incredible effort was put forth but some builds weren’t quite as nice as the next. Is that all on the modeler? Or is the manufacturer responsible to some extent? How many kits were made back in the day with saggy nacelles? If it wasn’t one thing, it was another.

So here’s the quandary, do we appeal to a core demographic of the really amazing modelers out there and leave something like the top of a saucer smooth or should we consider adding VERY fine engraved lines that would really help out everyone else to make their build look as accurate as they can manage? What if we could do lines so fine that when viewed from an arms length look like they’re drawn on…

Let’s break it down further…

REASONS AGAINST:

1) it is not accurate to the filming model. The lines were drawn on with a pencil, not engraved.

2) Talented modelers are capable of drawing the lines on themselves.

3) … well… See reasons 1 & 2, I guess.

4) SEE REASONS 1 & 2! (Expletives mercifully deleted)

REASONS FOR:

1) The model kit should represent the TOS U.S.S. Enterprise… as in the one with Captain Kirk standing on the bridge and Scotty in the back screaming that he needs more time. The ship has a deflector grid on the saucer that falls between metal plating resulting in narrow valleys on the surface of the hull. (Or did Apollo’s green hand draw them on with a giant space pencil?). The filming model had some other wonky stuff that we wouldn’t want to copy exactly either. So, we aren’t completely beholden to the filming model, our mission is to create a representation of Matt Jeffries’ design in support of what was shown onscreen.

2) If handled correctly, the engraved lines would look just like penciled on lines.

3) Drawing concentric circles on a 14” curved saucer is not an easy task for anyone. More often than not, most modelers will struggle with it.

4) Star Trek has a wide appeal beyond the modeling market. Tons of Star Trek fans would be interested in building such a kit even if they aren’t modelers or even artists. If engineered well and thought through, the kit should allow them to be able to build an accurate representation of the ship for themselves.

5) If we don’t keep in mind that any kit could be someone’s first kit, we as model kit manufacturers wouldn’t be doing our due diligence.

6) Most modelers who really work over the details of a build to achieve their vision of perfection have the skill to eliminate the lines without much trouble. Or at least they would not have nearly as much trouble removing them, as another modeler would have with drawing them on.

All this is considered without a firm decision in mind at this point. We’ll see how it goes. 1701CLUB members will be the first to find out the answer.



70 Responses to “Star Trek Model Kits: The Great Debate”

  1. msspurlock says:

    I’d prefer no lines, but trace lines, barely there, if technically possible, would be the best of all possible worlds. As for the bottom of the primary, bare is best.

  2. kehrer1701 says:

    Well, I found the instructions (sadly not the model) of the old AMT Enterprise #6676. The instructions, at least, show the grid lines and phaser emplacements in both the assmembly instructions and the painting guide….
    I had read somewhere that the model on display at the Smithsonian has the lines added before being displayed there. The gaming models used in ADB’s miniatures, the micro machines, etc.. all seem to have these same deflector grid lines. Even the book “The Making of Star Trek” and most other reference books show these lines…
    I am for the lines, but why not make an “optionaly” purchased part that doesn’t have the lines available for a “good” price for members of the 1701 club?

  3. Alpha8 says:

    I said it before, but I can’t remember which board…it will be easier to get rid of them for those who don’t want them that it will be for many of us to add them.

    I’ve tried doing it on a 1/1000 TOS Enterprise. IT ISN’T FUN.

    It’s a win-win situation when you think of it. Whatever decision is made, a garage kit of whatever isn’t produced will hit the market.

  4. spock62 says:

    Been following this debate on a couple of forums and find it a bit silly actually. The original filming model DOES have grid lines, shown in pencil. As you mentioned, if the kit has a smooth saucer, drawing on concentric circles will be hard to say the least. I see no problem having very fine engraved lines on the saucer. If someone doesn’t like them, filling with putty will take care of the “problem”. A lot easier then scraping/sanding them off as was the case with the original release of the 18″ kit!
    You also make a good point that a lot of hard core modelers miss, not everyone who buys these kits are hard core modelers. Some only make one or two kits a year, for some it’s their first time making a kit. This has to be considered when producing a model, making it accessible to a larger audience. I’m sure there are people, who are not model makers, but are Star Trek fans, that would consider purchasing this kit, but would be put off if it was difficult to assemble or required advanced modeling skills (like drawing on a grid in pencil). Those of us that have been doing this for years and have the skills need to think about that and remember what it was like for us when we first started making kits.

  5. Tiberious says:

    At the risk of putting a target on my head on various hobby-oriented talking boards…. IF you can put them on with a light enough touch, I’m in favor of the grid lines.

    So now that I’m ‘out’ who’s going to take a bullet for me?

    Tib

  6. JohnE says:

    Grid lines please, I am a good modeler and all, but a compass on something that large would be a real pain. I tried on the 1k model, but even it turned out badly.

  7. SD Studios says:

    Hello! This is Steve D. I was the head of product design for MR when we did our replica (with Gary’s assistance). Hi Gary!!!

    We pondered this very same problem as well, and decided to have the factory draw the lines on with pencils. Some models looked great, and others… well…less so. I guess they don’t have pencil sharpeners in China.

    I would recommend that you leave any physical line detail off (so that the pilot models will be accurate) and perhaps supply an injected styrene or PVC template (like a wedge with lateral spacing guides and pencil holes in it that could be rotated around the edge of the primary hull). This would allow the modeler to draw the lines on themselves if they so choose. The additional tooling for such a gizmo would probably only add about $500 to $700 to the project costs. (plus some added notes and artwork in the instruction sheet). This cost would be displaced by the reduction in costs for adding the lines to the existing upper and lower saucer tooling anyway. So it probably would net as free… or close to it.

    BTW: Gary was a HUGE help with the MR model. Awesome guy and a joy to work with! No matter what you do with the lines, I am buying TWO kits!!! Thanks!

  8. BatToys says:

    As a 1701 club member, Please add thin fine grid lines. I think Round 2 said the grid lines are on the 11 foot model so that’s why I would want them.

    Also it would be nice to have a First Generation test shot giveaway contest for 1701 members like you did with the Batmobile but without the build requirement.

  9. BatToys says:

    The pictures of the 11 foot model show a faint engraved grid line or am I wrong?
    I thought the pencil drawn was on the 3 foot model?

    I prefer faint grid lines as pencil lines, even with a stencil, could look “fake.”

  10. BatToys says:

    Did the bright studio lights wash out the grid lines on the 11 foot model? The saucer did look smooth on a 19 inch TV set.

  11. BatToys says:

    I wrote engraved but the raised lines look embossed.

  12. BlackBirdCD says:

    I consider myself an accomplished model builder, having won numerous awards at both local and national levels. I’ve built a lot of TOS Enterprise models in my life, pretty much every styrene version out there. Many, like the original AMT kit or the Polar Lights 1/1000 kit, I’ve built multiple times.

    The first thing I would do to the surface of this 1/350 TOS Enterprise saucer? Sand the surface to prepare for painting. And I would sand every other surface as well. Usually a 400 or 600 grit buffing makes it far easier for primers and paints to bond.

    So for someone like me, and there are many others in this field like me, very light saucer lines would not be a major issue – and as you’ve pointed out Jamie, they would be a fine addition to the folks who are trying out their first kits.

    Make them thin, with accurate placement, and it’ll be just fine. Cheers!

  13. Chuck Kourouklis says:

    Well, you kinda stacked the analysis, eh? 🙂

    But even if you hadn’t, oh yeah. Do the lines, especially if you can do ’em fine – so fine they look like the penciled lines, they’re probably fine enough to get filled with primer if need be.

  14. Mach7 says:

    Well, I really don’t care. If, as you say, they will be incredibly fine then, well fine.

    Either way I’m just happy to see this kit move forward!

    Thanks

  15. Brad says:

    If at all possible, Jamie, I’d love to have the grid lines included. It’s far, far easier to eliminate them than to add them after the fact!:-)

  16. kehrer1701 says:

    As Alpha8 said and I said before, couldn’t an “extra” add on part be done that would be the saucer without the lines? If I read right, you are going to do a bridge ‘extra’ piece for the regular kits that people would have to purchase extra anyway. The old AMT model mentioned in my earlier post, as best as I can recall, did have those grid lines on the model. Screen shots from google show the grid lines on the primary hull.

  17. Hello all,

    I recently built a 1/650 scale model of the USS Constellation and I remember really wishing that there was a guide or a decal sheet for the deflector grids, as I tried [unsuccessfully] to create them. I was able to create grid lines on the nacelles and secondary hull (as shown in the above Smithsonian link) without incident, but the saucer just seems bare without them compared to the rest of the model. I totally concur with Aplpha8: Its seems like it is a lot EASIER to have gridlines that could be sanded off, if the modeler so chooses, than to even attempt to try to recreate them.

    Have a great day!

  18. modelsbyray2 says:

    HEY GUYS WHY NOT AN EXCLUSIVE SET OF DECALS FOR THE GRID LINES SINCE THEY WERE DRAWN ON ANYWAY THEY WOULD BE SMOOTH ANYWAY, CLOSER DETAIL TO THE SHIP ANYWAY , YOU MADE THE AZTEC SHEETS FOR THE REFIT, HOW HARD WOULD A SET OF ONE COLOR GRID LINES BE? BESIDES THE MODELLER CAN ACCENT OR FADE THE BOLDNESS OF THE LINES WITH A DUST COAT OF PAINT OVER THE DECALS..ARENT THE GRID LINES ONLY ON THE SAUCER ANYWAY???

  19. modelsbyray2 says:

    GOT HEAVY WITH THE ANYWAYS LOL

  20. R.D. says:

    Oh well, I wouldn’t have had a place to display it anyway. Thanks for saving me money Round2!

  21. Max says:

    I’m not surprised about gridline issue since I have been contributing to the argument.
    Jamie no matter what you do your going to get a flack about it. But for those that wish to apply them here is my suggestion.

    As for applying them, it would be very easy(I do not see where Jamie is coming from on this). If fact he(Jamie)is in a position to make it very easy for the modeler. Give a point at the center of the saucer to place a compass(as part of the sprue?). With that reference point it would be very simple to lay out the circles and arrayed lines. For the circles use a compass(or make one, a ruler/stick pencils/pens and tape?) Use a strip of styrene, taped(blue tape, delicate surface)to one side of the center. Then draw/scribe your lines. If somebody needs a pattern, supply a template in the instructions, for the correct interval of the arrayed lines(it could be done for the circles as well). For the lower saucer use the groves for alignment(that’s what Custom Replicas recommended with their 66″ E kit). The upper saucer has many reference points to help apply the arrayed lines. The outline of the sub-bridge(the piece below the bridge) would work very well for placing a template with the arrayed lines indicated. Tic off where each line would go, then use the styrene strip to draw in or scribe the lines. It really isn’t that difficult.

    I’m sure the paper and time to create the templates will be a lot less than having the factory place the grid in the molds.

    And it would take a lot more time to sand off the grids(than to draw them on), especially around the groves on the lower saucer. That’s a prime spot for problems(that’s a spot where I had a bit of trouble on my 11 footer).

  22. 67firebird says:

    No Gridlines Please!! Reason #1 says it all. It is not accurate to the filming model. The lines were drawn on with a pencil, not engraved. Plus they were not even visible. Plus if you can’t draw them on, then decal them on. Either way, No Gridlines Please!!

  23. HK_sends says:

    Decals are the easiest option and don’t require consideration of engraving or embossing. You could offer options of black or various shades of grey to meet the builder’s desire to have fresh or faded lines.

    No reason to really incite debate if you have the option to have/or not have grid lines via decals. If you really wanted to get realistic to the filming model (and not the “spirit” or “intent” of the original builder or restoration artist), you should provide all panel line options as decals.

    Food for thought…

  24. HK_sends says:

    It seems I misspoke about the filming model having no engraved panel lines. The secondary hull apparently does.

    My apologies…

    -HK sends

  25. BatToys says:

    On one of Jamie’s photos of the 11 foot filming model, there is a faint raised gridline. Or did I see it wrong?

  26. ModelMan says:

    I’ve been strongly against the lines for the longest time. Why? Because I never saw them on the show, but did see them blemish my AMT kit everytime I built one.

    A few years ago, I heard lines were penciled on and then I saw them in some shots on the TV. Once you look for something, usually you’ll find it -if it exists -and the top-saucer grid lines certainly exist. So if Gary Kerr says they are there in-person, then I gotta go with the guy in the know.

    When I read Jamie’s ‘finely engraved’ statement above, I switched camps. If they can be engraved so finely as to be near invisible at three feet, then sure. For most of us, the model isn’t going to look too great closer than three feet, so there it is. “A three-footer.”

    Then I read SDStudios idea on the template and was converted to that notion.

    Paper templates would be too weak to ensure accuracy. Plastic templates would be stable and lock into place as needed.

    Engraving does make the basic hull inaccurate to Pilot #1,2 causing major headaches to those folks.

    If it’s to be decals, misplacing or tearing one of them can theoretically ‘ruin everything’…

    Whereas being pencil graphite, mistakes can be ~~~erased~~~! At the very least, mistakes can be teased away with a trusty and warm, well-kneaded, gum eraser. (Presuming you’ve sealed the surface before penciling.)

    A plastic template (in conjunction with your own mechanical pencil and gum eraser) will give everyone of all skill levels a solid chance to get it real nice.

    IMO.

  27. Max says:

    I thought of something else that could be a problem with applying the grids. Namely in removing them, it you have to sand off a raised line. It will create high and low spots in the model. If they are inset it will create the same issue. But the biggest problem areas will be around the groves on the lower saucer. If the lines pass through the groves removing the lines will be almost impossible, without deforming groves. Plus if you go to sand off the lines around the groves, your going to cut into them. I don’t care how good a modeler is it’s going to happen(remember Murphy’s law). To rebuild the groves will take days of work.

    Another thought, you have to remove the gridlines for both of the pilot versions of the E. Creating a bigger problem for the novice modeler.

    Thanks Jamie for letting us comment on this.

  28. kehrer1701 says:

    How hard would it be to offer an alternate part of the saucer with the gridlines on or off (depending on what the default model finally ships as)? Also, here is another article I found of shots of restoration that clearly shows etched lines:
    http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=8672

    Let me ask, so what is the basis for determination of the gridlines being used: is it to reflect the original model, the 3ft or 11ft, the original plans, screenshots, the remastered version of TOS, etc…

    Do you consider the phaser banks under the forward primary hull canon or not? Does this version get the two phaser bank emitters?

  29. iriseye says:

    I for one prefer to have the grid lines. I’m sure as you are undertaking a huge effort to produce this kit, the grid lines will be as precise as possible.
    Just imagine, for those of us who prefer the grid lines, what a task it would be to scribe them ourselves. It seems to me that filling them in (if one prefers) would be a lot easier than trying to scribe them accurately.

  30. JamieH says:

    Kehrer1701- The biggest hurdle with getting this kit made was the cost of tooling. In order to create optional parts with and without grid lines we would need a set of saucer tools for each version. There is no way we could afford to do that.

  31. fortress says:

    JamieH Please! Please! Please! for the love of God
    NO GRID LINES!

    The 1701 is without question one of the most graceful
    and elegant spaceships ever conceived not to mention the
    fact that on the TV show and most of more popular photos
    of her there seem to be none. The fact that for the FM
    they were drawn on with a pencil really says it all.

    Just take a good hard look at the old AMT version for
    about an hour maybe have a glass of wine and really
    think about.

    Nuff Said.

    By the way panel lines on the USS Excelsior Secondary hull
    also NOT a good idea, Sorry that was stuck in my throat also.

    Thanks for hearing me rant.

  32. mwkoubek says:

    Please do not engrave the grid lines. Don’t force the gridlines on those who do not want them.

    It would be great to have them on, but the kit should give folks the option of not having them. The grid can be added via a decal sheet. Decal sheets could also have gridlines for the rest of the ship: lower surface of the primary hull/saucer, for the secondary hull & interconnecting dorsal (the line was engraved on the 1/1000 kit), nacelles, etc. It could be done as a separate purchase to keep the cost of the kit down.

    A decal sheet could also be used to depict the aztec pattern seen on the “Enterprise” episode which featured the USS Defiant.

    The only other option would be to include alternate parts for the top of the primary hull, one with engraved gridlines and one without, but this could be cost prohibitive. Just my two cents. I hope to see the kit soon.

  33. kehrer1701 says:

    Thanks Jamie for your reply. Two questions. One: I did sign up for the 1701 club but have never received any updates and I thought someone above said they received one. Have any been sent out via email? Two: What is the goal of the final released AMT model and the criteria being used to decide if deflector grid lines or not? Is it the TV filiming models, the past AMT models, the original blue prints done for the TV show, or video from the original or remastered versions of TOS DVD’s? Maybe that could help shape the type of feedback you are looking for. Regardless, thank you for doing the model (however it ends up, it will still be cool).

  34. BatToys says:

    Rethinking it, the ship looked smooth to me on TV.

    So if no embossed gridlines that’s ok with me.

    If someone wants the handdrawn pencil gridlines, maybe a stencil can be included?

  35. jonathondadams says:

    Ok folks, I’m going to throw this out there. I really think it’ll look fine with or without the gridlines, I also think everybody on here is getting a little too serious about them. It’s a set of lines that can either be drawn on (if omitted) or filled and sanded off (if included). To those that don’t want them, explain why every post that says “Please don’t include these” follows up with their own instructions for how to put them right back on (ie. templates/decals/etc…), all I’m saying is everybody complained about this model, ranted and raved and now that it’s being made, you’re just mad about something else. I know this post is for discussion and I support healthy debate, but I would also like to sit back and smile that this thing is actually going to happen. Flame on folks! And I really don’t care whether there’s gridlines on the saucer or not, I just want the model.

  36. kehrer1701 says:

    well said. If not grid lines or if grid lines, I’m still getting it. Mabye the best of both might be to include one massive decal for the grids on the top, bottom, of saucer, etc.

    In making the determination for grid lines or no, what is the criteria of the model? To reflect accuracy in relation to the tv filming model, the refurbished tv model, the screen shots, etc? Or, is just a vote by the fans?

    Regardless, the above poster is absolutely correct. I’m just happy to see A model at all!

  37. JamieH says:

    Kehrer- I’ll address your question in my next update.

  38. Bats says:

    I like the idea of a plastic stenciler for the gridlines and it seems to me the easier and cheaper way to go. The best alternative to that would be a set of masks similar to paint masks that would be fairly cost effective.

    On the other hand, either way it comes out it’s a 3 foot model! Too cool no matter what!

    Do I understand this correctly? You have to be a member of the 1701 club to get it?

  39. JamieH says:

    Bats- You have to be a member of the 1701CLUB to receive updates and to buy the Premiere Edition of the kit. A standard edition of the kit will be released and will be available through hobby retailers after the premiere edition.

  40. Bats says:

    Cool! I can wait for the standard. THX Jamie, for all your hard work. I know what kind of frustration you must be going through trying to please as many people as possible with this project. Now go home at the end of the day, crack open a cold one of your favorite bevvy, and relax a minute. 😉

  41. kehrer1701 says:

    Phaser Banks–will the new model have the lower phaser bank emplacements (the two little forward firing phaser bank pods located just up from the lower sensor dome on the underside of the primary hull)? Depending on your source, the digital version of 1701 had them in the Enterprise Alt Universe setting in Star Trek: Enterprise tv show. They actually had the phaser banks showing on the forward and aft sections. The remaster TOS series has a few screen shots of this as well. Honestly, however, I am not sure if the actual filming model had these (maybe they were just the “retractable kind like in the last TV series Enterprise show”). Image:
    http://www.round2models.com/models/star-trek/enterprise-1701

  42. kehrer1701 says:

    Here is a nice shot from the remastered TOS video..
    http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:USS_Enterprise-D7_face_off.jpg

    I can see plates, at least

  43. Zakuformer says:

    I’m for the gridlines. Like others have stated, filling them in and sanding them smooth would be way easier than scribing them in.

    🙂

    ~Sean

  44. crowe-t says:

    Grid lines or no grid grid lines, I’m still getting this kit or maybe a few!!! 🙂

    One thing to ask is what about building a Pilot Version which didn’t have any grid lines? I guess the grid lines will need filling and sanding and sometimes that takes a lot of work by even the most experienced modeler.

    I like the idea of decals included for the grid. This way the choice is there for the modeler to have or not have the decals. Even an inexperienced model builder will still have to apply some decals(markings, registry…) so if the grid line decals are designed in sections it might not be too bad.

    I think it’s a reasonable assumption to make that a first time modeler or even a non model building Star Trek fan most likely won’t know there were grid lines drawn on with pencil.(I am talking about the original Enterprise FX shots). It took a lot of searching to see the grid lines on a DVD and in most pictures of the original TOS E the grid lines don’t show up at all.

    I know that the original TOS Enterprise 11 foot filming model was plain and flat looking but that’s become it’s signature look. The engraved lines would have to be extremely faint(actually finer then a pencil line) at 1/350 scale to not look out of scale.

    Just my 2 cents and in no way changes my mind on getting one of these fantastic kits! 🙂

  45. kehrer1701 says:

    You know, something just occured to me. The original AMT release did have the grid lines on the primary hull, BUT, they were incorrect because they where “raised” gridlines..which I agree would be inaccurate. This old raised version is what everyone remembers, which also looked a bit odd. The grid lines should be recessed, not raised, to represent the hull plates. The space between the hull plates also serves as the deflector shield emitters (if I have my Star Trek tech correct). This is more accurately done on the Refit Enterprise models, Reliant, etc.
    http://culttvman.com/main/?p=3665
    I think it’s the old raised lines that has left the bitter taste…
    If they are fine and recessed, it should better reflect what it should have been, right? I mean the hull just isn’t a smooth plate of glass..

  46. HK_sends says:

    All the remastered TOS shots are CGI. The virtual model artists added the plate effect.

    @jonathondadams: The whole point of this thread is to generate good healthy discussion (read: debate). It’s not flaming to air our concerns or worries over detail on a kit we were asked to provide feedback for.

    The issue is the cost of tooling, but it is also the quality of tooling as well. I understand those that suggest fine engraved panel lines, but frankly, no offense to Round Two, the contract model manufacturers that are being used to produce a lot of the Sci-Fi kits today really aren’t proficient in “fine” panel lines. As good as a lot of the kits are, the detail still seems to be soft, including line engraving. To do fine gridlines justice, you need a manufacturer that can cut the tooling to the quality of Hase**wa or Ta*ya. The contract folks producing the Star Trek aren’t there yet. This is not meant as a flame, just an observation.

    -HK sends

  47. HK_sends says:

    All the remastered TOS shots are CGI. The virtual model artists added the plate effect.

    @jonathondadams: The whole point of this thread is to generate good healthy discussion (read: debate). It’s not flaming to air our concerns or worries over detail on a kit we were asked to provide feedback for.

    The issue is the cost of tooling, but it is also the quality of tooling as well. I understand those that suggest fine engraved panel lines, but frankly, no offense to Round Two, the contract model manufacturers that are being used to produce a lot of the Sci-Fi kits today really aren’t proficient in “fine” panel lines. As good as a lot of the kits are, the detail still seems to be soft, including line engraving. To do fine gridlines justice, you need a manufacturer that can cut the tooling to the quality of Hase**wa or Ta**ya. The contract folks producing the Star Trek aren’t there yet. This is not meant as a flame, just an observation.

    -HK sends

  48. HK_sends says:

    Sorry…Double Post. Where’s the edit button on this thing?

  49. eimb1999 says:

    The way I see it, if the panel lines can be engraved (not embossed) as finely as the panel lines such as seen on a 1/48th scale Tamiya model airplane kit, I’m all in favour of them. Any heavier… leave ’em off.

  50. jonathondadams says:

    As always sarcasm reads worse than spoken. @HK_sends: (X3) Thank you so much for explaining how debates and forums work. I was making the point that it seems like every person that doesn’t want the lines on the saucer, wants some sort of device or option to put them right back on and I found that funny, the rest was just sarcasm. Anyway, I can’t wait for this model and I think it’ll be fantastic either way.

  51. rocketguy says:

    I would vote to have very fine grid lines scribed into the plastic, not protruding from the plastic. If they are light filling them for those that did not want them would be very easy. Drawing them yourself even with tools would be a tricky proposition and require four or more hands. Decals could work but for a very fine line you would need to cover the entire surface with a solid decal and that is going to be a big problem in getting it to lay flat. Decals that fine applied to line up with the grid is not going to be plausible either other than for the most patient and skilled modeler. Making two parts in each box, one with and one without, is going to raise costs and seems like taking the most irrational approach to placate a very few modelers who could almost as easily fill in the lines if they wanted. So you got my vote and my rationale. I’ll be quite happy with whatever I get actually.

  52. jaws62666 says:

    Jamie. are the glue Batmobiles on the water yet?

  53. JamieH says:

    jaws62666- Yes they are. It looks like they will arrive in our warehouse the first week of September.

  54. hdatx says:

    I have been a Trek fan since the beginning… I have read sources that said Roddenberry wanted lines on the filming model so they drew them on with a pencil. As a member of the TOS E 1/350 1701 club I would like to see the lines. Just because the film camera back then couldn’t see them does mean they were not there. See the model in the Smithsonian. The top of the saucer has not been restored. The lines are there. An advanced modeler could just fill them in. I think that regular Trek fans would expect them to be there. Thanks for developing this kit. I hope it sells well…

  55. magnification says:

    Hi Jamie,

    I wonder if I can return to the subject of licence agreements. Being in Europe, actually the UK, I am frustrated that I cannot join the 1701 club and (especially)get the T shirt; getting the special edition kit is less of a worry as I will get the volume release kit plus ad ons from sites such as Starship Modeller in due course anyway. However, I want to participate in the buzz and anticipation from now till then. Is there anyway that non-US based enthusiasts could still get the e mail shots and be given an opportunity to buy the T shirt as a stand alone item, but fore go the kit via the club ? Does this get you around the licence agreement issue? Hope you can do somthing here, I appreciate it’s more work and complexity for you folks, but it would be a huge boost (to me anyway!). All the best.

  56. nicktaximan says:

    Hi,Jamie
    Just adding my voice to that of Magnification,above.
    Its not true that recent riots in the UK were caused by dissatisfied modellers unable to join the 1701 club,but it could easily have been 🙂

  57. siderius says:

    I personally would enjoy seeing the Polar Lights 1/1000th starship line expanded. My biggest complaint with model starships is the varying scales which they come in, no constant scale is available. I believe the 1/1000 scale solves that problem.

    I’ve built the original Constitution class, as the Constellation, plus the Klingon D-7 class of starship. I think a Reliant to go with the 1/1000 scale Constitution refit which has recently been released would be great. An original Romulan Bird of Prey would round out the previous original series ships released. Hope to see this happen. I enjoy the detail and ease of construction of your Polar Lights kits. Thanks, Russell

  58. JohnE says:

    Any update on 1701 shirts? Can’t wait to sport it with pride!

    I don’t care if it has grid lines or not. I’m just happy a 1/350 kit is coming at all. And if it does sell well, then I would love to see a fleet of 1k kits. Enterprise D in 1/1000 anyone? I can dream right?

  59. modelsbyray2 says:

    hey i had a brain fart, remember the small shuttle that came in the 22inch refit star trek V kits? how bout a cadet series of shuttles in that scale??? starting with the original ent, and ending with the voyager series delta flyer?? would be a good addition to the small trek series.

  60. kehrer1701 says:

    Just puchased Panoramic “Star Trek: Ships of the Line 2012 Calander.” The front cover has a GREAT PICTURE of the Refit Enterprise with a mirror image of the Classic ship. They show the “grid lines,” recessed of course None the less, this is a really cleare picture of what the model “could” look like…
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005GG0O2W/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1449404642&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=02HXTGKAM4BKCTZTM3WP

  61. Bats says:

    Jamie- what did you come up with on those dash doors for the deluxe Batmobile?

  62. Bats says:

    Regarding the latest poll- If you decide to start charging extra for adding “mini showcases”, wich can already be purchased seperately, will you be releasing each model without them as well? I am not willing to pay extra for a cheap plastic showcase when I can already get them elsewhere. IMO this is a rediculous idea. It will reguire larger packaging as well, further driving up the cost of the kits.

  63. Bats says:

    I see that the Batmobile glue kit is in the states now. Still wondering about those dash doors though.

  64. Max says:

    I have a thought with a question, if you place raised gridlines on the model, how do you maintain the lines between the upper and lower saucer? When you have to fill and sand the parts smooth.

    This brings to mind another model company that was notorious for raised panel lines on their aviation subjects. If you have ever made one of these kits, the lines are not a convenience.

  65. 67firebird says:

    I still do not understand this debate. There were no engraved lines on the filming model so why would anyone want them on this model. They were drawn on with a pencil! If round 2 wanted to include a pencil with this model, I could understand. However, to engrave lines is blasphemy. Most people in the modeling world are such perfectionist and accuracy fanatics, I can’t understand anyone asking for engraved or raised lines on a model, especially one this expensive. Please, no grid lines.

  66. kehrer1701 says:

    I thought we established there were grid lines? Regardless, I am just happy to have the model. If I understand correctly, however, the gridlines represent two things: the hull panels AND the deflector grid. In Star Trek tech, the hull is made up of hull plates, these RECESSED (not raised) lines represent where the plates meet (which like I said is where the deflector field is generated around the ship). This might be diving into Star Trek tech to much, but we are building a replica of a starship. The gridlines (recessed) appear in TOS remastered versions, and most other images and models of this ship. The big question to ask is what verison of the ship is Round2 trying to represent? The onscreen ship, the remastered ship dvd’s, etc.. I will be the first to admit that the raised lines from the original AMT release looked bad (all those years ago).

  67. cf101b_voodoo says:

    This debate has been going as long as models of the original enterprise have existed. There are websites that prove they did exist. The original filming miniature in the Smithsonian has the grid lines on top of the saucer, which, as far as I know, was left untouched during the restoration. Reference pics are available on any number of reference sites. Having said that, they are extremely subtle and I can understand some people not wanting them to be visible at all. The most reasonable solution, IMO, is to make them recessed and as fine as possible. Those that don’t want them on their enterprise can fill them in with little to no trouble. Those that want them there but extremely subtle can paint the model and they would only be visible upon close examination. Those that want more pronounced lines can run a thin mechanical pencil through the lines once the model is painted. Once again, just my opinion.

  68. johnmiic says:

    To satisfy both camps in the grid line debate wouldn’t the solution be to have very fine, raised lines? Having built a couple of AMT Classic E’s I have found it easier to sand the grid off with moderate to little effort. However, having built a couple of AMT Movie E’s, with the bad detail engraved on them, I have never bothered to fill in that accursed pattern and sand the movie E smooth. I would prefer no grid lines but if they are very fine and raised a light sanding would take them of easier than filling them in.

  69. kennetzel says:

    Now that the Leif Ericson has hit the shelves with the long missing lighting kit ( and THANK GOD you put it back) what are the chances of the original AMT Enterprise being reissued with it’s original lighting kit put back in?

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